Carl Cestari

July 23, 2007 Carl Cestari passed away at New Jersey aged 48 after a long Illness. To his wife Carol and family we convey our sincere condolences.

This article is very much a reflection of my association with Carl during my early training years at the School of Self Defense New York. I did not know much of Carl’s non-training aspects of his life so wrote this of the time I did share with him involved in combative training.

While Carl never ventured globally to train or instruct he did over the past decade become known in civilian self defence circles for his writing on martial arts and close quarter combat and their history.

While he had never seen service in the military or been military trained in CQC he had spent a great part of his life researching on the subject and was passionate about it.

Carl had been a police officer up until 1982 and had an interest in martial arts especially Jiu Jitsu and self defence.

I first met Carl in the mid 1980s when I was training with Charlie Nelson in New York. Paul Gerasimczyk introduced us and Carl came to the YMCA where I was staying and we trained in the gymnasium and wrestling room there.

Before I left NY he returned on several occasions and brought along other friends of his that were interested in close combat.

On my next visit to NY Carl met me after I had finished training at Charlie’s and we went to Honda martial arts supplies on west 23rd street as well as to the military bookman and sky books on the hunt for good rare or unique titles.

Carl was very interested in the pioneers of military hand-to-hand combat and when Paul told him of my background and work he became very interested. He said he was not into sports fighting type martial arts and had no back ground or interest in ever competing in mixed martial arts or the like.

We spent most of the time planning future visits and Carl asked me to show him my system and the skills of Harry Baldock, he was hungry for information especially about Harry Baldock and my facility in NZ and military programmes.

Carl was a fan of Brad Steiner and they were in close contact in the late eighties.
Carl suggested on my next trip that I should visit Brad in Seattle and gave me an introduction.

When we met I told Carl that Harry Baldock had recommended and arranged for me to first visit Charlie Nelson and had set me on my way to train from respected experts in military close combat.
Carl asked me to send him articles on Harry and the Baldock Institute especially going back to its early establishment in 1927 and on my take over and direction now with military training.

He was very impressed with the long history of the facility and Harry’s World War 2 military instructing of unarmed combat. I sent him a package of such material on my return.

Carl told me of his former police service and of his new direction and how he had to work construction and train when time allowed.

I told him that I wanted to contact Col Applegate as he was one of the experts that Harry and my close friend and former Green Beret Miles Singe back home had told me of and recommended I make contact with.

He said while he did not have an association with Col Applegate his close friend Brad Steiner did and he would pass on my request. On Carl’s recommendation I visited Brad Steiner on two occasions on my way to NY to train with Charlie Nelson and had a nice stay along with my wife and assistants in Seattle. Brad as it turned out had not personally met Col Applegate at that stage but had been in contact with him and gave me his contact details.

On my next visit to the US Col Applegate arranged a visit for myself and my assistant Howard Bell on our way to NY.

On arrival in NY Carl couldn’t wait to catch up and find out about my visit to Col Applegate’s and to see the material and knives etc that Col Applegate had given me.
Carl was waiting to see me after I finished training at Charlie’s on my first day of training and was especially interested in hearing from Howard and I on what skills Col Applegate had shown us.

I told him that Col Applegate had given me a smatchet and knives as well as programmes, manuals and books and I had taken masses of notes and he had given me some of the pepper spray he was testing. I told Carl that Col Applegate said it was even effective with dogs and bears, Carl said he would like to see that.

While Carl Paul and I were walking along West 72nd street joking and generally having a good time I discreetly released a small burst of pepper spray immediately behind us and I can clearly remember Carl between coughing and spluttering saying, “you crazy bastard”. Over the next few weeks when we met up to train he would bring up of how this crazy kiwi pepper sprayed him in the street.

I was going over to New Jersey to spar with Glover, a kick boxer and the police partner of Paul, and Carl came and watched.

I also conducted a training session there for Carl and his people that was well received and as well as me taking the training Carl showed me his jiu jitsu techniques.

On my next visit Carl arranged for me to conduct training at the dojo where he trained as well as had his students set up a seminar for me to take the same weekend.
I informed Carl of my main reason for visiting in regards to military close combat training and the familiarization I had just undertaken at Fort Bragg and how I had met Larry Jordan the chief hand to hand combat instructor while there.

Carl was very interested in my familiarization and the training and testing I had coming up in South East Asia and said what a lucky bastard I was to have such an opportunity and to travel and work in close combat as my career.

I told him of the businesses I had owned and the work I had done to finance my travel and training phases. I invited Carl to visit me in NZ and he started planning to do so.
Carl introduced me to his mum and dad and then took us all out to dinner and I met some of Carl’s friends.

Looking through my correspondence to and from Carl I find things that I had long forgotten and remind me of the years from the mid-eighties until 1990 when I had an association with Carl and my good times at Charlie’s in New York and hanging out with Paul and meeting up with Carl and others.

Several of my exponents travelled with me during that period and attended the training with Carl and his students that I instructed. I contacted them when I heard of Carl’s death and they recalled what they remembered of the times with Carl in NY and that information assisted with this article.

October 1988 I wrote to Carl thanking him for the certification he had sent me and for including me in his organization. I asked him for assistance with getting an article on the Baldock Institute in a major US based magazine. I requested contacts for Brad Steiner and Col Applegate and the possibility of getting signed photo’s to grace the walls of my training facility.

Carl had told me how he would love to see my collection of combative material when we previously met up in NY and I had sent him photos of some of the display items and weapons etc.

I received a reply sometime after my October 1988 correspondence that is not dated from Carl that outlined his wanting to visit New Zealand. He thanked me for the pictures and material I had sent him and said our set up in NZ looked great. He told me he would send me some autographed photos to hang in the old facility of some legends.

He went on to explain he had spoken to Brad Steiner in regards to me contacting him and how all three of us were into weight training. Carl said although he was located in an urban area he only had a few dedicated students in New Jersey.

He stated he wanted to relocate to Seattle so he could work closely with Brad. Carl asked if on my next trip State side if I could split my time with Charlie to fly out with him to Seattle to see Brad and possibly spend a couple of days with Col Applegate in Oregon. “Perhaps by then I will be living in Seattle,” he said, “but let me know what ever think about the idea. I have enclosed some material and I hope you enjoy it. I will try and give you a call soon and expect more consistent letter writing from me. It was a real joy to make your friendship and I want to work closely with you and with Brad.”

Visiting New Zealand, Seattle or Oregon never got beyond this the planning stage.

July 7th 1990 I sent Carl the paper work he had requested from me on setting up an official organization including a constitution official forms and a copy of our crest for his reference.

I sent Carl the travel and visa information he had requested for his proposed visit to New Zealand set down for December 1990.

I advised Carl that I would send his assistant Steve Cantara the information he had requested and that Carl was welcome to bring Steve or any of his students down under with him on his planned up coming visit.

I advised Carl that I had been in contact with Col Applegate and we were working on setting up a global organization of military qualified close combat instructors along with Larry Jordan.

I told him of how the hand over from the old regime to the new had been completed here and of the incorporation of my Group and how the change of the guard from Harry to myself took place.

From Carl undated, “sorry we didn’t get more time to work out and spend more time together. I will certainly take you up on your offer to spend some time in NZ. Good luck best wishes and happy training.”

I met several people on the seminar at Carl’s that have kept in contact but since the early 1990s I have lost contact with Carl and am sad to say never had another opportunity to catch up or for him to visit the Todd Group, which had been an intention of his.

I met John Kary through Carl on that seminar I instructed for Carl and Sandy Held as well as Steve Cantara and while it seems so long ago now these people are clear in my memories of my times with Carl.

In the 90’s Col Applegate contacted me and asked me how well I knew Carl and that he had asked to visit him with some of his friends so they could meet him in person.
Col Applegate said Carl had told him of how he was my friend and of the training I had conducted for him at NJ as well as the pepper spray incident in NY.

My military instructing duties and my international instructing commitments have taken most of my time in the past fifteen plus years and I have lost contact with some of the people I met in the 80s including Carl. We went our different ways and lost contact but in civilian combative circles his name would pop up from time to time.

I have had people on my courses and that train from me now that knew or had read of Carl on the net, including meeting people when instructing in the UK that knew of, or had, met Carl.
My close friends in New York would keep me informed if they heard or saw Carl and of how he was.

Late 2006 I stopped off in NY and stayed with Paul and while I was there we met up with Boddie one of our fellow life members at Charlie’s and he told me he had seen Carl at a jiu jitsu tournament and that he barely recognised him as he had lost so much weight and looked so ill. I was shown some video footage of Carl on a course recently and he did look very unwell.

I had tried to get a contact for Carl after hearing this news but no one seemed to have contact details for him. I am only sorry that I did not get the chance to see him before his all too early death. His material on the Internet will be missed by his readers and his work and life has been cut all too short.

I assisted Charlie Nelson’s daughter Carol to get Charlie’s red and grey manuals combined in one book and published by Paladin recently and there is a forward by Carl in this book.

The civilian close combat world is very small and isolated from the military current combative fraternity and they I’m sure will miss Carl’s writings on the net. Carl unfortunately never got to achieve what he dearly wanted to especially in the instructing of military forces in close combat and was a very private person that a lot of his life is unknown to the general populus.

He did however have a love for self-defence and the history of close combat as well as Jiu Jitsu that made him a true researcher historian and committed enthusiast with out question.

May he rest in peace.